One of the paramount issues facing performing artists is having the ability and opportunity to secure affordable health care. I cannot tell you how often I’ve had even prominent musicians – let alone those who are struggling – profess great relief and undying love for their working spouse and that person’s ability to provide their health care insurance through the spouse’s place of employment. On the other hand I know of far too many musicians who are one slip & tumble or one debilitating sickness from oblivion. There are so many issues and concerns around the issue of affordable health insurance that I could go on for days about the dangers attached with not having coverage.

The Future of Music Coalition has taken many positive steps on behalf of studying, discussing and lobbying for performing artists needs and disparities in their respective workplaces, on important copyright issues, and in the world you performing artists occupy in general. Currently they are conducting a critical health insurance survey of the performing artist community and I wholeheartedly endorse your participation in this process. Please take a few moments out from your busy schedule, follow the prompt below and voice your choice in this survey… And please do it now; with the current ongoing debates about the Affordable Care Act and the fact that so many employers are fighting enactment tooth & nail, as Charlie Parker said “Now’s the Time” for performing artists to stand up and be counted!

Artists: do you have health insurance? If not, why not? Nonprofit artist groups are conducting an online survey from July 17 – Aug 31 to assess how many US-based artists have health insurance on the eve of the Affordable Care Act.

I’ve been a believer in pianist-composer Orrin Evans‘ artistry for many moons; thought he was robbed (as did Randy Weston, who was a judge that year) at the Monk Competition some years back (when he finished second), presented Orrin’s engrossing concert tribute to his late dad, playwright Donald Evans, at the scene of many of the latter’s theatrical triumphs, Cleveland’s historic Karamuu House Theater, and have appreciated Orrin’s career arc ever since. One positive aspect of his career has been his diversity, in terms of his vast array of affiliations and his desire to explore his music in a broad array of different contexts, ranging from his trios to his Captain Black Big Band, which was recently cited in the 2013 DownBeat Critic’s Poll as the Rising Star large ensemble.

Nasheet Waits drumming pedigree stems from his late father, Freddie Waits, whose brilliant work on McCoy Tyner‘s classic Time for Tyner release was grits & gravy for me coming up as a jazz enthusiast in college. Proving the old adage that the apple doesn’t fall far from the tree, Nasheet has developed as simply one of the most resourceful and consistently intriguing A-list drummers on today’s scene. Look no further than the diverse range of his affiliations, including Jason Moran‘s insightful Bandwagon, Andrew Hill, Wadada Leo Smith, Dave Douglas, , Antonio Hart, and Fred Hersch. Mentored by Max Roach, Nasheet’s most recent recording as a leader is Equality (Fresh Sound)

Bassist Eric Revis brings a broad range of affiliations to Likemind. He’s worked with a distinguished array of artists, including such masters as McCoy Tyner, Elvin Jones, and Betty Carter, who like many of the great singers was always very meticulous and particular in selecting bassists for her trios, and Gary Bartz. More recently he has been a mainstay in the rich quartet tradition Branford Marsalis has established. Each of those affiliations, as well as stints ranging from KRS One to guitar stylist Kurt Rosenwinkel, has informed this bassist’s broad outlook. Marsalis has remarked that Revis’ bass work “…is the sound of doom: big, thick, percussive…” As a leader City of Asylum is the fourth entry in his growing discograhy, with Kris Davis on piano and the distinguished, uncompromising drummer from Haiti, Andrew Cyrille. Like his other releases City of Asylum (Clean Feed) also suggests a detailed sense of original composition that is not so much about gratuitous displays of bass chopsmanship, but a real desire to craft an ensemble sound out of the raw materials of that most basic improvising ensemble, piano, bass & drums.

(photo by Jati Lindsay)

Vocalist JD Walter, whose work is the newest to these ears of these four, is definitely a new contender in the suddenly growing ranks of prime male vocal stylists with a jazz & beyond attitude and prowess. Developing as a sort of singer’s singer, he’s developing the art of vocal improvisation in service to his original compositions, evidenced by his latest release One Step Away. Walter displays a bold sense of programming, augmenting his five originals (including collaborations with Revis and Waits) with reimaginings of Paul Simon, Todd Rundgren, and Michel Legrand

Evans, Waits and Revis came together in 2006 to form the co-op trio known as Tarbaby. I had the pleasure of writing the liner notes for that assembly’s new 2013 release Ballad of Sam Langford, for staunch DC-area jazz supporter Tony Haywood’s HipNOTIC label. That release, which also includes special guests trumpeter Ambrose Akinmusire, alto saxophone wiz Oliver Lake, and a cameo from Orrin’s son Matthew Evans on finger piano, displays the kind of broad-based, original composition-driven approach that is an apt summation of where all three of these men are coming from.

Recently Evans, Revis, Waits and Walter have come together to develop the very promising musician’s collective they call Likemind – a name which pretty much sums up why they’ve forged this bond. But I wanted to know more, and I’m sure you do too, so clearly a few questions posed to all four were in order:

How did the Likemind collective germinate and what’s the mission?

Walter: The easiest way to answer this is that it was the right time, the right place, the right people, and the right frame of mind. The likemind Collective has a core of people that were brought together under various circumstances, and there are still other folks who are branches of this train of thought and have similar sentiments and proclivities with whom we have collectively or individually worked. Oliver Lake, Andrew Cyrille, Marc Ducret, Ben Wolfe, Donald Edwards etc. It came together quite naturally. People were not selected. Like minded circles of folks playing together is not an uncommon occurrence, but we would like to believe that there is something special about this collection of like minds. The collective exists whether a name is attached to it or not. We chose to market ourselves under this guise, but by no means is it a gimmick, this shit is for real.

We believe our mission should be the universal goal for all musicians as it pertains to this great African American art form. We are not saying that this is a new concept or mission, or that we are original in this thought process, but we as a collective, stand on the shoulders of the greats who came before us, who have led and still lead the way. We strive for “The end of fear” in the creation of this music, which by chance is the name of Tarbaby’s sophomore CD . Fear is the death knell for this music as we see it. Everything else, played or recorded with fear serves to placate or give the public and critics that certainty, validity, and comfort in identifying what art is, what is good, and to be able to put their finger on what the future of this music holds. If per chance we create music that does these things…great…but being accessible cannot and is not our supreme goal.

Tarbaby’s latest release: Ballad of Sam Langford (HipNOTIC)

Why these particular musicians ?

Walter: My whole life’s goal as a musician has been to grow (to state the obvious). It just so happens that after having played this music in a traditional way for many years, I started to seek out people who were searching for where this music was going, while at the same time being true to its basic tenants. The search is a beautiful unending process, but for the journey to take place, I needed to associate with, play with, listen to, and communicate philosophically with people who had similar goals, ideas and an insatiable drive in their love of this music. There have been numerous musicians in my life who filled these roles. I had personally played with Orrin for years, Nasheet on occasion, and had been an admirer of Eric’s, especially because of his association with Betty [Carter], who I revere as another Like mind. We are not just playing this music, we are living it. The conversations off the bandstand are talks that I often wish we had recorded, but more importantly, the passion in these conversations, the sharing of ideas transcend the music, and are indicative of our lives. To have the opportunity to work with this fully formed trio, only bolsters my resolve and hope for this vantage to be “heard”. The “understood” part of the equation, is not for any of us to determine.

Regarding his latest record (“…It was Beauty” on Criss Cross) Orrin says about the personnel (Revis and drummer Donald Edwards) “we don’t always agree on everything, but we do speak the same language, which is built on respect for where we all came from?” Does that sum up the Likemind philosophy?

Evans: That exactly sums up the Likemind philosophy. The conversations we have off the bandstand are just as intriguing as the musical conversations we have on the bandstand. The “likemind” isn’t because we all think the same but it is because we all respect each others opinion and agree on the foundation of this music.

How do you balance the creative musician’s inherent need for individualism with the collective approach of Likemind?

Revis: Those two notions are not necessarily mutually exclusive. Our strength as a collective stems from, and is fed by, the individuality of it’s members. We are very much inspired by great collectives, from the Surrealist movement through the AACM through Wu-Tang each of which was characterized by very distinct personalities. It is also worth noting that there is a tremendous amount of selflessness (both on and off the bandstand) within Likemind.

Talk about your plans for Likemind going forward.

Evans: At this point artistically we are looking forward to learning and growing together. On JD’s “One Step Away” Eric introduced us to the musical works of an artist by the name of Scotty Walker. In TARBABY having a guest artist like Oliver Lake is the equivalent of going to school every time we play. Mr. Lake brings such a mature approach to the music and the “hang”. When you listen to “It Was Beauty” you’ll hear compositions by all of our Likemind friends including bassist Ben Wolfe. Finally on City Of Asylum I will always remember being in the booth “advising” while watching Andrew Cyrille effortlessly play some of the most beautiful music. With experiences like these and looking forward to the future as long as Likemind keeps an “Openmind” to everyones’ approach the artistic plan of continued growth will remain intact.

In these times of independent record labels and self produced projects joining forces and sharing information is essential to a successful career. Looking forward it would be great to one day soon have a Likemind record label or production umbrella that includes artist that are have a similar mission and recognise the importance of controlling as much of your career as you can.

Eric Revis’ latest release is City of Asylum, with Cyrille on drums and pianist Kris Davis.

Many thanks again to the Jazz Journalists Association for the 2013 Lifetime Achievement Award, and to my friend Bret Primack “The Jazz Video Guy” for his subsequent YouTube interview (see url below). The following interview appears in the current issue of the Tri-C JazzFest newsletter.

The Jazz Journalists Association recently presented Tri-C JazzFest Artistic Director Willard Jenkins with the 2013 JJA Lifetime Achievement Award in Jazz Journalism.
With that in mind, we put a few questions to him about jazz journalism and how he came to advocate for the music.

You just got an award from the Jazz Journalists Association. Does the press do a good job of representing jazz to new audiences?
I think the press does a substandard job of representing jazz — period. And here I’m speaking of press outlets, not those many learned and earnest jazz writers who strive for bylines and yearn to cover this music more broadly than publications or editors enable them to.

All too often writers have a tendency to shoot over the heads of their potential readers in an effort at patting themselves on the back for their supposed acumen and “insider” knowledge of what I refer to as the science of music. I’m not advocating outright cheerleading or dumbing down of one’s prose, just a sense of mindfulness that those who read your reportage may need non-technical elements, real storytelling to draw them into the fold of interest.

How long have you had your blog and what prompted you to start it?
I’ve had my blog The Independent Ear for about seven years now. I was prompted to start it purely to have a creative outlet to express some of the issues and elements of this music that I find missing in the mainstream jazz prints. I use it as an outlet to write what I choose to write, without publication-imposed restrictions.

I like dealing with issues, like the plight of African Americans writing about jazz that I dealt with over the course of months under the heading of “Ain’t But a Few of Us.” Or perhaps it’s talking with an exceptional and under-publicized artist like the pianist Sumi Tonooka and her latest composition project.

At our Tri-C JazzFest last April, I came away even more impressed than I already was with the exciting young vocalist Cecile McLorin Salvant. I checked her out during the festival, found her not only to be an unusual talent with an amazing vocal range, but a young woman of uncommon grace and maturity for one so young, so I wrote a piece about her efforts at our festival coupled with the release of her first stateside album “Woman Child.”

As artistic director of the Tri-C JazzFest, you get to dream big every year about what artists to bring into town. How do you approach the challenge?­

First of all, working for Tri-C JazzFest has been a blessing, as has my other jazz presenting work. That work has enabled me to bring artists to our stages that I firmly believe our audience ­needs to hear, must hear, deserves to be exposed to.

My task is to keep an open mind to what’s out here and not be closed to my own personal proclivities; to have a sense of what’s good for our audiences and venues and what makes sense to bring to Cleveland; also be on the listen for what might challenge our Cleveland audience.

Throughout the year I keep a fluid document full of ideas that come to mind throughout the year while listening to new releases, meeting and interviewing artists, broadcasting the music, and just experiencing the music.

Tell us about your father’s record collection and how it influenced your ear.
Like most of my peers, I listened to the music of the day growing up, and for my time that was Motown, Stax, James Brown, etc., whatever they were playing on WAMO or WABQ. However, my dad’s record collection was a constant source of what I’ll call alternative inspiration, as was Cleveland’s last full-time jazz radio station, WCUY.

So I was exposed to the Duke Ellingtons, Count Basies, Sarah Vaughans, Ella Fitzgeralds, Cannonball Adderleys, Jimmy Smiths, Miles Davis and the like from an early age. My dad was also a bit of an early adapter in the stereo revolution – where the mark of good taste became your home sound system. I remember Christmas 1961 watching my father assemble a new home sound system and being fascinated by the process, and later how good the music suddenly sounded – not only the Temptations, Smokey Robinson and Isley Brothers I’d slip on the turntable, but also the great jazz artists he was always spinning.

My appreciation for music and collecting records increased exponentially when I got to college at Kent State and I became known as a voracious record collector — someone who wouldn’t hesitate to commandeer a friend’s car to make the drive to Cleveland to the old Record Rendezvous to scarf up the strange new album Miles Davis had just released called “Bitches Brew.”

On campus I became the guy who introduced new music to my friends because I was the guy who took chances and experimented with what might be unknown to others. So not only might that mean the latest Miles, but I’d also be the first on campus to introduce new groups like Earth, Wind & Fire to my circle. Record collecting became sort of my social niche.

And that all stemmed from my father’s early influence.

What advice do you have for people who think of jazz as intimidating? Where should they start?
I’d say people should simply start with trying to listen to a variety of sounds and artists and determine their own listening pleasure. Maybe a good place to start would be the Smithsonian’s comprehensive recorded survey of the music.

When encountering a jazz performance, listen to the interaction between musicians, check how they subtly communicate with each other, and know that behind this mysterious element known as improvisation is some measure of a blueprint; these musicians aren’t just going onstage and playing random notes — or improvising in the purest sense of the word. They go equipped with certain mores and sensibilities that in the best of all worlds has them attuned to their fellow musicians to create a cohesive, pleasant, stimulating experience for the audience.

Who’s the long-gone jazz artist you’d most like to have met?
That’s a tough one because I could say Duke Ellington, Charlie Parker, Thelonious Monk, Mary Lou Williams. But ultimately I think that would have to be Louis Armstrong.

To hear more from Jenkins, check out this video on YouTube:

…And this from the 2013 Jazz Hero Award in DC…

Part one of our drum dialogue and listening session with Allison Miller and Carl Allen focused mainly on some of the ancestor immortals of the drum. In part two we visit some of our greatest contemporary drummers through their music and the keen insights of these two exemplary practitioners of the oldest external instrument known to man & woman.

WJ:OK, so we’ve heard several of the immortals, let’s hear some drummers on the contemporary side.

Matt Wilson “Happy Days Are Here Again”

WJ: First of all the song; we’re so used to hearing that piece played way up tempo and we’re used to hearing that on New Year’s Eve. [To the audience] I’m sure all of you recognized “Happy Days Are Here Again.” What was your sense of that performance?

Allison: I wanted to hear more, I wanted to hear where it went. I have to say I was mainly listening to the brushes, I was really tuned in to that. I don’t know who that was but the thing that I really enjoyed was that the brushes never left the head.

WJ: That was Matt Wilson.

Allison: Ah, I love Matt! I love how his brushes never left the [drum] heads, and within that there were so many sub-divisions of implied feels. He was playing his hi hat, but there was no need for him to play his hi hat. The way he was playing the brushes there was so much space, but there was so much direct interpretation of the time, but it still had a nice breath around it. I think Matt’s a beautiful player and one of the most musical drummers, and one of the most wonderful spirits out there and such a nice guy! He reminded me of my other teacher, his brush playing, and that’s Michael Carvin. Michael has that similar kind of sub-division on the brushes; he’s a master of playing the brushes, and Matt reminded me of the way Michael plays.

Carl: I loved that. Initially I thought it was Terell [Stafford]’s record, I knew it was Terell [on flugelhorn]. Matt reminds me in a strange way of Joey Barron, in the sense that these guys can really cover such a wide range, such a wide spectrum of genre and approach. Its always difficult to tell its Matt because he comes out of so many different bags; but great musician.

Francisco Mela “Toma del Poder”

WJ: We’ve had a couple of tracks where the drummer has been in duo, and the rest of the tracks we’ve heard the drummer has been the bandleader, and that’s the case with that particular track. That was the Cuban drummer Francisco Mela, who works in Joe Lovano’s two-drummer band Us Five, alongside Otis Brown lll. What was your sense of that?

Carl: I dug it. Initially I thought it was Brian Blade, but the sound of the drums didn’t sound quite like Blade. It took a little while to settle into it because it had a lot of different components to it, but I dug it because it had something different to it. I dig Francisco, I think he’s a great musician. I’ve heard him with [Us Five]. I remember the first time I heard it I said “now how’s this gonna work?” But they complimented each other real well.

WJ: I interviewed the two drummers [Mela and Brown] about playing together in that band and they were feeling the same way you were when they arrived at the studio and saw that Joe had two of them there; they wondered how that was going to work. Now, at this point, they’re pretty much completing each other’s phrases.

Allison: I didn’t know it was [Francisco], I actually thought it was Dave King until the horns came in and I thought, “oh no, its not [Dave King].” Like Carl I was distracted at first by the sound of the record and the sound of the drums and I think he’s a wonderful drummer and a wonderful musician, but for me I didn’t hear a melody and I never quite connected with the composition, so its not totally my cup of tea, but I appreciated it or not.

WJ: This next piece the drummer is not the leader he’s part of a cooperative ensemble.

Lee Konitz/Bill Frisell/Gary Peacock/Joey Baron “What is this Thing Called Love”

WJ: That was actually a performance of “What is This Thing Called Love”, and the cooperative band was Lee Konitz, Bill Frisell, Gary Peacock, and someone you mentioned earlier, Joey Baron. What’d you hear there?

Allison: I loved it, I love Joey Baron, and the whole time I was listening I thought “I know who this drummer is.” At first I thought Joey Baron, but then for a second I thought Paul Motian, a similar thing [to Joey] at the very beginning, but the second I heard Bill Frisell come in… I loved the looseness around it I loved the musical communication that was happening.

Carl: I also loved it, but it threw me off a bit because I was hearing Lee and I thought it sounded like Lee, but then I kept thinking of saxophone, guitar, bass and drums and started thinking of Sco-Lo-Fo, the group with Lovano, Al Foster and John Scofield. I dug it, it had an openness to it, but a forward motion to it.

WJ: Let’s hear a drummer in an accompanying role, and we’ll talk about working with singers.

Betty Carter w/Jack DeJohnette “Sometimes I’m Happy”

WJ: That was Betty Carter, and I got the sense that you knew who that was Carl.

Carl: Jack [DeJohnette].

WJ: With Dave Holland on bass and Geri Allen on piano.

Allison: Wow!

WJ: So it wasn’t so much only a supportive thing.

Carl: No, but its interesting with Jack, he’s also a pianist and very much like Tony you can tell that he writes because he plays from a position… the way he orchestrates is like he’s used to respecting the melody and respecting things that are going on outside of rhythm. It was very, very different for Jack because you didn’t hear a lot of toms, but there were some dead giveaways with that conversation between the snare and the hi hat. Jack is an unbelievable musician!

Allison: When was that recorded?

WJ: That was one of Betty’s last recordings, “Feed the Fire” 1994, one of the last records she did for Verve.

Allison: I had no idea that was Jack [laughs]! I knew it was Betty Carter, of course, but that’s when my mind started playing tricks with my ears…

WJ: …And you started thinking about all of the drummers that worked with Betty?

Allison: Exactly, and it didn’t sound like any of the drummers that worked with Betty Carter!

Carl: When it first started you could hear Tony’s influence on Jack.

Allison: I loved that!

Carl: Yeah, it was great.

Dave King “Autumn Serenade”

WJ: “Autumn Serenade,” and the drummer was the leader on that, and someone Allison mentioned earlier, Dave King.

Allison: I thought it was Jeff Ballard!

Carl: That’s a great treatment of that tune.

Allison: Is that a new album? I love Dave’s drummers; he lives in Minneapolis and talk about someone who really comes from a few different genres. He has a few really great rock bands that he either leads or is part of. I love his drumming, he’s so inventive and creative but he really respects the tradition too and he adds so much to everything that he’s involved with. That was gorgeous! The way his drums were miked and recorded, nice pillowy sound. I’m particular about how the drums sound in the studio, especially these days.

Shannon Powell “Powell’s Place”

WJ: Now there’s a drummer who is a reflection on where he’s from.

Carl: Herlin Riley?

WJ: Where do you think this drummer is from?

Carl: New Orleans.

WJ: There are a lot of master-level musicians who never leave New Orleans. You think about that HBO series “Treme” and the singer who sings that theme song, John Boutte; he’s a great singer, but he never wants to leave New Orleans! Well here’s another one; that was Shannon Powell.

Carl: Oh, Shannon’s a rough cat! I thought about Herlin, but the sound of Herlin’s cymbals is actually a lot darker. You know there’s a commercial I saw online with Wynton and Shannon’s playing and singing. Shannon, for those of you who don’t know, is an unbelievable self-taught musician who just happens to play the drums and sings. He’s straight out of that New Orleans tradition and once he starts playing second line, everybody’s getting up. He plays with such a happy feel; it was really interesting to see him with Diana Krall, that was a whole ‘nother thing. I love Shannon’s playing, he’s got that bounce, its just happy, and it so much matches his spirit.

WJ: Absolutely. He lives in Treme and he often cooks and people come and buy dinners on his front line.

Carl: I remember he told me once, “hey bruh, next time you come down to New Orleans you need to come to my restaurant. So I saw Donald Harrison and told him I had seen Shannon and he told me to come by his restaurant. He said “restaurant, he’s got a food cart, what are you talking about” [laughs]. That’s Shannon, you gotta love him!

Allison: The second that came on it was obvious, that’s not a New York drummer playing second line, that’s a New Orleans drummer. Its like when you go to Cuba and you hear Cuban musicians playing Cuban music in Cuba and you go… oh!

WJ:… This is how it’s supposed to be!

Allison: There’s no way to play that feel unless you’re from that place, and that’s how I feel about New Orleans. That was beautiful! And you know what I like about that, he was playing the melody on his drums and he had a few variations to the melody he was playing on his drums, and its like the perfect thing; loved it!

Last February, as part of our annual 3-concert young artist series Monk in Motion: The next face of jazz, Tribeca Performing Arts Center presented the three finalists in the 2012 Thelonious Monk Competition. The medium was the drum and we presented bands led by young drummers Jamison Ross (2012 winner), Colin Stranahan, and Justin Brown on successive Saturdays. Each concert was preceded by our customary pre-concert humanities program and for the February 2 series kickoff concert, featuring Ross, I had a sort of roundtable dialogue with two vastly experienced drummers (Dianne Reeves once cautioned me once that you should never refer to a woman as a “veteran”), Carl Allen and Allison Miller.

Carl Allen’s most recent recorded effort is as a member of bassist Christian McBride’s band Inside Straight (“People Music”, Mack Avenue). Allison Miller’s latest recording with her band Boom Tic Boom is “No Morphine, No Lillies” (The Royal Potato Family).

PART ONE

Cozy Cole “Concerto for Cozy”

Carl Allen: I enjoyed it, it had a bounce to it and to me that’s one of the things that if I had my druthers in terms of what I’m going to listen to, that would be it; not necessarily this idiom per se, although I do love that… but just the whole feeling of the bounce; its happy, its got a forward motion to it. It reminded me of Zutty Singleton and Papa Jo, I enjoyed it; the call & response was very creative.

Allison Miller: I agree with Carl about the bounce; immediately it was like “yes”… To me if it feels good that’s pretty much the key thing. The other thing I loved is that you could really hear the drummer’s bass drum in this recording, you could hear him feathering the bass drum and with a lot of old recordings you can’t hear that, so I enjoyed that. I think because you can’t hear the bass drum a lot in older recordings a lot of young drummers go into university or college and no one has told them about feathering the bass drum, at least that’s my experience. They come into big band and they’re not playing the bass drum, and then when they do play the bass drum its just really loud. So I think that’s a special art form that’s kinda being lost.

Jo Jones & Milt Hinton “The Walls Fall”

Allison: That was amazing; I was not expecting the brushes to come in like that. I don’t even know what to say, that’s what I strive for, with brush playing, right there.

WJ: You mentioned feathering the bass drum being somewhat of a lost art; is it the same with brush work?

Allison: I think, yeah; I hate to admit it but I think it is. [Turns to ask Carl] Do you agree?

Carl: Absolutely.

WJ: So what did you think of that track?

Carl: I loved it, and whoever it was – if it wasn’t Papa Jo…

WJ: It was Papa Jo Jones; it’s a very special recording, a duo recording with Milt Hinton.

Carl: Yeah, “Percussion & Bass.” I’m a little biased but I think that’s the most important relationship in the band, between the bass and the drums. Because, as my good friend Christian McBride says, it’s the foundation and you don’t start building the house from the roof. It’s the bass and the drums that create the dance and allows for the rest of the band to float on top. And if you just check out the history of jazz recording its no accident that you will see the same bass and drums as a team on a lot of different recordings. We can do word association and say – Elvin [Jones] & Jimmy Garrison, Tony [Williams] & Ron [Carter], Paul Chambers & Philly Joe [Jones]; we could go on down the list for the next six hours…

It’s no accident because, Allison, I’m sure you’ve experienced this, quite often when people call you they’ll say “so and so (a bass player) asked me to call you, I’ve got this record date. Or they’ll say ‘what bass player do you want to play with’, it happens all the time.

Allison: Exactly.

Carl: But technical mastery… I love that [“Percussion & Bass’] recording. You got a collection there… that’s out of print, you don’t hear that too often!

Max Roach & Dizzy Gillespie “Georges Cinq”

WJ: Another duo; in that case Max Roach & Dizzy Gillespie. What’d you hear there?

Carl: Creativity. The thing that always amazes me about Max , for my personal taste. he is one of the few drummers who can keep an audience’s attention just by playing solo, for a long time. When I first moved to New York in 1981 (New Jersey at the time), Max would do solo concerts from time to time, and would play duo concerts with rappers and poets.

WJ: …And he could take the hi hat and entertain you for fifteen minutes with just that.

Carl: Absolutely. And if you think about his career, its very fascinating in terms of all of the different things that he’s done – not only from being a pioneering bebop drummer, but if you look at what he did with M’Boom, that was really incredible.

I remember talking with Dizzy after a concert we had in Japan, it was really a moment that helped to cement my mantra; it was August 16, 1987 and I said to Dizzy – you know Dizzy was always the kinda person who was laughing and joking, and he’s backstage sweating and laughing about something. I said “Diz, I really wish I was around in the 40s and 50s…” He stopped and said “Carl, why would you say such a thing” – as if it was offensive. I said “just to be there when you guys were creating bebop.” He said “that was an important time, but the way that all great art is created is that there’s a foot in the past and a foot in the future and that you’re moving forward with a sense of tradition.”

That reminds me very much of Max because he was very much a traditionalist, but always moving forward, always trying to create something different And that to me was the epitome of what the bebop musicians were; that’s what bebop was, it was a revolt from what was going on previously.

Allison: Max was always such a great composer and drummers are underrated for their composition and he’s always been a big inspiration for me with composition, same with Jack DeJohnette. The way Max tied social change and political change to his music… Everybody was doing that during the Civil Rights movement, but he was just very literal about it, which I really appreciated that statement when I started listening to Max. The way he would combine a gospel choir and drums – “Motherless Child” is amazing – and the way he combined string quartet and drums. He was constantly thinking out of the box.

I was listening to that track and I loved that looseness of it; sometimes I think that looseness is being lost, the way each beat breathes. He was keeping that ostinato pattern going with his feet. The other drummer who does that, who my whole life I’ve just obsessed over, is Edward Blackwell. He’s the other guy to me who could just hold an audience with a solo.

Roy Haynes “In The Afternoon”

WJ: What can you say about Roy Haynes?

Allison: [Laughs] How long do we have?

Carl: I’m glad you’re first [laughs]…

Allison: He’s the definition of modern jazz, even in that recording he still sounds younger than any drummer I know! He’s had that sound… It’s just incredible to me that he has that tight, crisp sound and he’s so musical. You probably know him personally; I think Carl should talk because I don’t know [Roy] personally…

Carl: Yeah, but you know what you felt [laughs].

Allison: Talk about forward motion! That felt so good.

Carl: Roy is an interesting case study, on many levels. One, he defies age. But the thing that’s amazing to me about Roy – and you can go back and check him out with Bird, or with Chick Corea, the list goes on and on… But conceptually speaking his style never really changed much, but it always sounds fresh! I remember mentioning that to him once, and he said “I hadn’t thought about that before, but you’re right.” I mean it always sounds fresh.

In a strange kinda way it reminds me of Louis Armstrong; you could listen to records of his and he always sounds like he’s about 20-30 years ahead of the rest of the band conceptually. But [Roy’s] ride cymbal just floats; the way he’s able to play across the bar line and have conversations between the limbs is just amazing.

I remember once we were playing with Freddie [Hubbard] at the Blue Note and [Roy] was in the dressing room, he and Stanley Turrentine, just kinda hanging out. So Freddie wants to show off because there’s some guests in the dressing room. He says “Roy, get in here with your little short, funny dressing self. You know I never could play with you, you’ve got a funny beat.” So Turrentine said, “you gonna take that?” They were sitting there drinking. So he said “Yeah, ok…”, he just let Freddie talk. He said “yeah, you got a funny beat, you dress funny and you’re short…” Of course Stanley’s saying “I wouldn’t take that…” So Roy says, “Funny beat, huh Hub? That’s funny man, ‘cause Bird didn’t have no problems, Pres didn’t have no problems, Mary Lou Williams didn’t have no problems…” And he went on and on until finally Freddie said “get out, get outta my dressing room…” Roy is really something special…

Allison: To me Roy’s ride [cymbal] sounds like what ice skating sounds like; like the feeling of ice skating on a pond, whenever I hear Roy’s ride cymbal. If I’m having a down day and just don’t feel like I’m locking in with my beat, I just play along to “After Hours” from We Three [Haynes with Phineas Newborn and Paul Chambers] and then life is good again.

Carl: The thing that’s interesting to me about Roy, his playing goes against what we’re taught as drummers. Like when you’re young just about everyone tells you when you’re playing the crash cymbal, hit the bass drum to give it some weight. Roy doesn’t play the bass drum with the crash cymbal! I mentioned that to him and he was like “yeah, OK, so what?” [laughs]. He just said “that’s how I hear it.” So much of what he does goes against conventional wisdom. He’s amazing…

Tony Williams “There Comes a Time”

WJ: Kind of a mantra like quality there…

Carl: Not sure who it was, but I dug it…

Allison: Tony [Williams], right? Lifetime.

WJ: Yeah, the Ego record.

Allison: [Sings] “There comes a time…” he sings on that record, I love his singing. I love that record, and that song particularly. I really obsessed over that song when I first bought that album. I bought the vinyl and just listened to that song over and over.

WJ: Had the same effect on me.

Allison: Tony was the reason I started playing drums, from Miles Smiles. I remember I was little playing drums – I grew up in Maryland – and I was listening to early hip hop and stuff my parents listened to, like Earth, Wind & Fire, the Meters, Prince, Michael Jackson and all that stuff.

Then I started taking drum lessons and somebody gave me a Buddy Rich record and now I’d be into it, but at that point I wasn’t into it. And then somebody gave me Miles Smiles and I was totally taken the second I heard Tony Williams play. I said “oh, that’s what I want to do!” The way he was interacting with the band… Big band at the time, the Buddy Rich big band, I just couldn’t connect at the time. But Miles, whew… Tony’s the reason I started drumming; I saw him play a lot but I never really hung a lot. I studied with Lenny White, which was pretty close!

One of my favorite drummer-led records was [Tony Williams Blue Note date] Spring…

WJ: …With Sam Rivers…

Allison: Which I think was [Tony’s] first record; I love that record!

Carl: [Tony] was very young then…

Allison: Yeah, he was very young.

Carl: The interesting thing about this particular track [“There Comes a Time”] is how the role of the drums changes; its not so much that he’s a timekeeper, but he’s playing a lot of colors and creating a lot of moods, which is really hip. Tony to me was a genius. I asked Alan Dawson, who had Tony as a student at 12, about the hi hat thing that he used to do with Miles, playing quarter notes. And [Dawson] said when he came in for his first lesson he was doing that and he hadn’t seen anyone do that. So he said [to Tony] “what is that, why are you doing that?” Tony said “that’s what I hear.” [Dawson] says he was always grateful that he never asked [Tony] to change that; he just said “if that’s what you hear, that’s what it is.”

[Tony] had a concept at 12! He started playing with Jackie McLean at 16, before he played with Miles. Tony was unbelievable.

STAY TUNED FOR PART TWO POSTING SOON...